ASDA updated plans

Thanks for that. Am I right in saying that we'll have to object again to the next set of plans?

Yes, I think the process starts over again, So maybe we need to get a meeting organised to direct any objections as soon as we have digested the new plans.

I agree, we'll need another meeting to examine any 'new plans' that they produce.

I'm sure we can get the church hall again for this. I'm trying to find out what's happening. I think it would be good to perhaps stage some sort of protest if they are going to have another exhibition/public consultation. It's about time the Observer got a bit more interested in the issue and perhaps we need to make more noise.

If there is another public consultation period, we will need to find more arguments etc. Perhaps it might be an idea, rather than each of us trawling through reams of publications, to form committees, i.e. work in small groups each probing different government policies and documents. That might be a more efficient way of doing it?

Yes, Gaby, I completely agree. And I don't understand why Asda have been given another chance.

Any news on the December Planning Committee meeting per Observer today? Also I note the Environment Agency has objected to plans - are there any new plans? And where is this bus lane in Battle Road going to be?

Is anybody there? Amended plans are now at HBC offices but NOT on the planning website yet. Deadline for comments is less than 2 weeks - by Monday 24 November - please write in.

The whole thing seems very underhand to me.
I am going to try and compile a mailing list to all members of the forum, all those who left their details with us at the meeting and also all those who have written in to the council. We need to get people to write (I wasn't even aware we could!) I do need some help with research into government policies etc to write my little speech - although the council have not yet invited me to speak. I also need help with leafletting etc.

It might also be worth investigating whether our councillors are actually following the rules here. Shouldn't there be more publicity with regard to the amended plans? Is it conincidence they are meeting in the middle of December, when they know that most people will be panicking about Christmas and won't bother turning up to a council meeting?

Any idea when int plans will be published on the website? all it said in my letter is that they will be but that could be anytime between now and the 24th......

Funny you should say that Rich, I have received a letter today, from Hastings Borough Council C Sampson, telling me that the amendment is now ready for review, on the website hastings.gov.uk/planning. It still refers to HS/FA/08/00378.

The Amendment is not yet published on the website. but can be seen at the information centre at Queens Square and the Borough planning office at Menzies Road.

All objections must be submitted by 24/11/08, so two weeks.
I shall try to post my letter on this site.

We need to get a meeting together folks

I still haven't received a letter and there's nothing on the uk planning website yet. I'm complaining to the planning department. Would you please all do the same? They should be informing people generally, not just those who objected. They should also allow adequate time for people to inspect new plans and publish those plans on the UK Planning website in good time.

I'm trying to get the church hall for some time next week. Will let you know asap.

Sorry I can't rmember how to load a file, I have sent the file to Gaby

Hi all, I have just been told by HBC that the amendments will not be on the planning website for another 10 days and that we can look at them at their offices. They will not do photocopies and the amendments are a good 6 inches thick with books and pamphlets - it is all the amendments I was told, not just the odd page or plan. there is no way to remember it all or copying it onto a camera; so It is impossible to comment. It is highly likely that it will not be on the planning website before 24 November and HBC will not extend this.

Don't you think Asda have planned it this way, with skimpy details to start with, and then all this just before Christmas without any publication of these amendments for the public to see. I was also told that i Couldn't complain to the Ombudsman without an official written complaint, which would take 2-3 weeks to respond to. Chris Sampson was not in.

So where do we go from here?

I think the first move is to write letters to the local councillers and planning officers urging them to give us three weeks review time from the time the ASDA amendments appear on the website.
If we get no joy then we may need to seek legal help.

Maybe we can resubmit previous objections that state general concerns (pollution light, rubbish, air and the local shop will still suffer)with slight changes, to buy time, because they have to be read.

Our councillors on the west side of Battle Road are Wishing Tree Ward councillors and appear to be on Asda's side, in fact Phillip Scott has been actively supporting Asda. We have written a letter of complaint to HBC demanding more time - 2 weeks from the date the amendments appear on the planning website is reasonable, surely. After all letters from people who were supporting the asda plan appeared months after the closing date for comments to their original submission. My guess is that the planning meeting will be right at the edge of the Christmas break when they think we will be distracted.

My question is, how can we comment on the revised proposals if we do not get proper access to digest them sufficiently to make an intelligent reponse? Yes we can regurgitate earlier letters but only if they relate to current documentation. If it doesn't HBC could throw all the objections out as not relevant and time-wasting or even malicious.

The Ombudsman tells me that they cannot do anything until after a planning decision has been made.

I also feel/suspect that the Observer is for Asda because they will get extra revenue from them. They are not printing anti-Asda letters and letters from Asda appear out-of-the-blue seemingly apropos of nothing in particular. Articles give more space for Asda than against.

I am meeting with Cllr. Matthew J Lock on Saturday after his surgery. Amber Rudd will join us and we will then discuss a strategy. Perhaps we can ignore the Observer and go straight to BBC south or ITV Meridian. It would be good if we could rally people for some sort of protest and for that protest to appear on television. It would be embarrassing to our local paper not to have covered the event and expose their shameful bias in favour of Walmart ASDA.

I have also booked the Church Hall again, but the earliest I can get it for is Friday, 21st, which may be too late for a meeting. What does everyone else think? I do really need some help with mailings etc. as I work and have other committments and am finding it very difficult at times to fit everything in.

We need to write and complain about the lack of access to the amendments. We also want enough time for the Council to consult the Environment Agency (who objected to the first plans) and the Highway Agency (who also had grave concerns) again on the amendments, and for them to reply of course.

I am complaining to Chris Sampson and copying the Council leader, Peter Pragnell.

We should also try to crowd out Council offices, all of us arriving at the same time, demanding to see the amendments. Really, we should try and do this on a daily basis. I'm happy to spend half an hour every day doing that and I'm happy to offer a lift to up to four people. Let's give this a go and let's make some noise! Now is the time!

I'll try and get Hastings Environment Network members on side and get them to do the same. Please tell all your friends and neighbours. We need to get as many people as possible to make as much noise as possible. If we don't put in a fight, you know what will happen.

I have been told that it is now likely the Planning Committee will be meeting on Wednesday, 3rd December.

Gaby, if we get a leaflet printed, I can deliver Silverlands Road and some of Battle Road, maybe even some of Paynton Road.

are you on Facebook? If so, please find the group "Say NO to Walmart ASDA in Silverhill" and invite your friends.

Hi Gaby, I can deliver anywhere within walking distance (of Silverhill)
And tell us the time for a daily picket at Menzies Road HBC offices & we'll be there

Also, I have 2 printer/photocopiers and would happily print/photocopy leaflets

Friday, 14th November, I'll be at HBC offices in Menzies Road at 12:45 with one friend. I have room for 2-3 more in the car.

I'll be working on leaflets this weekend. Any ideas on design anyone?

Friday 14th Novemeber, I shall try to be at Planning Office (Menzies Road) at 15:00

Me too, I can leaflet Vale Rd, Eversley, Beaufort Cres etc. Also can get leaflets photocopied. The plans are now up on the website (Ukplanning apparently). The nice man at the information centre in town had a look.

I have been reading through the Planning and Retail assessment (14th November), it is in error, it keeps stating that Silverhill is a district centre whereas the Local Development Framework Core Strategy Preferred Approach document section 9.7 clearly states that Silverhill is a Local centre thus serviced by a range of small shops of a local nature, serving a small catchment area tnis could include a small supermarket, a newsagent, sub-post office, launderette etc.
Well we are already serviced by two small supermarkets (co-op and Tesco), the same document in PA13 also states that consideration must be taken to reduce the impact of increased traffic and water minimisation measures.

There are many people living in Silverhill who do not live right on the proposed ASDA site who would welcome a competitive supermarket within walking distance and which would improve the appalling car parking difficulties for the other local shops, which would still be used by the way, contrary to what some people who are against this seem to think. Why should I be forced to drive to other districts for my supermarket shopping?

The fact that I live near the purposed site you must understand gives me reason to object, as I saved hard to purchase a house all to see the value of my home decrease if ASDA get the go ahead.
Also if ASDA get the go ahead then people shall drive from other areas Battle, Rye etc to save 5p on a pack of sausages thus saturating the traffic flow.
Whats wrong with using the local shops?.

Hi Bruce,

Of course there are people who do like the idea of an ASDA in Hastings and you are entitled to your opinion. And you needn't consider the impact this will have on traffic for those living nearby. But I think everyone in Hastings should consider the economic impact this will have on the whole of the town. If local shops are forced to close, then this will have a huge effect on the local economy, not just in Silverhill. The money you spend at local shops stays in the local economy. Money we spend at Walmart ASDA does not even stay in the country! Local shops are closing all the time, we are now left with only 4 dedicated greengrocers in the whole of Hastings! And when local shops close, jobs are lost as a consequence. Not just by people who work in the shops but their suppliers also suffer, including plumbers, electricians, computer engineers, etc. To replace those jobs, ASDA will offer a number of part time vacancies. They told us that management and key staff would be transferred from elsewhere and other jobs recruited locally.

With regard to the "convenient parking" they are providing - when they applied to put an ASDA on the Bexhill Road, 10 years ago, the proposed development was of similar size, just slightly bigger (6,900 m2) but with a community centre instead of a medical facility and, more importantly, 600 car parking spaces. Yes, 600. The proposed development in Silverhill will have a mere 310 spaces. Oh, and they are for anyone, not just people shopping at ASDA. I can't quite make that work.

Government guidelines say that supermarkets in district centres should not have large car parks at the front but should put car parking at the rear so that the supermarket can integrate with the local shops. In my opinion, that would be a far better solution, if we really have to have an ASDA. The medical facility is, in the opinion of many residents, not needed, as we have two perfectly good doctors' surgeries in Silverhill and we don't need another pharmacy either. We could, however, do with a community centre, or somewhere for our young people to go. And we feel, or I feel, that we should be asked about what we do or do not want in our community. People should be able to shape the community they live in and not have complete re-design forced upon us in the financial interest of a huge international company.

Hi Bruce - I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say that you "drive" to a supermarket to shop. Nobody - unless they don't own a car, do not drive, or are particularly concerned with green issues - no matter how close they might live to a supermarket, chooses to go by public transport, by bicycle or on foot. Claims made by ASDA that they will are unrealistic; no amount of cycle paths or bus lanes will encourage people to get out of their cars. At the moment, you drive OUT of Silverhill to go to a supermarket. The difference here is that a huge supermarket the size of ASDA will encourage an enormous number of people to attempt to drive INTO Silverhill - and you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be on a 24 hour basis (I've never yet seen an ASDA store open that didn't go for 24 hour opening - and they have suspiciously left opening hours blank in their planning application).

So, if this thing goes ahead, no matter whether you happen to live "on top" of it or not, we can all look forward to increased traffic 24 hours a day, increased noise pollution as a result, increased HGV activity 7 days a week for deliveries (up to 10pm they have said at the moment - but that could change), increased light pollution and the demise of our local shops - ergo, choice.

It would be interesting if you were to analyse how much of your shopping basket you actually spend locally to begin with, since, if you are driving to a large supermarket, one can only assume that it's smaller items or "top up" shopping. This would, no doubt, decrease if presented with a so-called "one-stop-shop" facility, which a giant ASDA superstore is likely to afford you. Ditto the "potential" shoppers that ASDA would kindly allow to use their car park for a couple of hours at a stretch. Given the distance one would have to walk - and over a 5-lane junction to get to those shops/cafes, etc., and given that ASDA are looking to put everything that is now available in the high street into their store - who on earth would bother to attempt to negotiate traffic and actually shop at those stores?

It is no secret that working in retail is not amongst the most highly-paid of jobs, but if you own your own store, you have a chance of making a decent living - especially if you are retailing in a skilled area, like butchering. ASDA's claims on employment are misleading. They have admitted that the vast majority of the jobs will be part time (so that's low wages and part-time only for the main part) and unskilled. That's not enough to sustain the main breadwinner of a household and is therefore only suitable employment for a limited number of people. Couple that with the fact that increased footfall in yet another supermarket = decreased footfall in others and it isn't hard to work out that the existing stores will be looking to cut staff. Where will they end up? ASDA! They're likely to get jobs over current job seekers because they have worked in a supermarket. So where are these "new" jobs they are supposed to be creating? It looks pretty much like redistribution of what's already in existence.

It's also not the kind of arena that we should be looking at as a long-term prospect for the regeneration of Hastings and its environs. Here we are, with a brand new college being built in town and an aspiration ideal that we will churn out well-educated young people and afford adult education opportunities. Where on earth will they be able to find employment opportunities to match their training and skills? Well, not here, by the looks of it. This kind of crass short-termism that our local authority seems hell-bent on pursuing will lead to a "brain drain" of all the talent in the town, with the result that we will be left with a population of largely unskilled, unemployed (or unemployable!) people, which would not be attractive to future investors with a serious intent to train, employ and develop to support the regeneration in this town.

I cannot agree with you that it is "competitive" and a good thing. They do not purchase supplies from local providers. As a hard-nosed US based business whose only concern is profit, they hold centrally negotiated contracts in order to squeeze their suppliers and drive down prices. Then they cart supplies all over the place from a central hub in the Midlands (not exactly in step with green aspirations and targets). Opening a store such as this will mean that ASDA's "thumbscrew" contracts and huge buying power will allow them to ruthlessly undercut and kill local businesses - which, in turn, will mean, in turn, that their local suppliers no longer have a market. Neither will the companies that currently serve them (e.g., computer engineers, carpenters, electricians). Local business people who have worked all their lives to establish themselves will find themselves on the scrapheap - and it's much bigger than just those that run their own shop. All of this will serve to further undermine attempts at regeneration.

Couldn't agree more! One small thing... shoppers who park in ASDA and wish to pop over the road for some "linked shopping" they will actually have to cross EIGHT lanes. I can't see it myself, can you?

Living in Silverlands Road will be like living on the central reservation on a motorway.

Yes couldn't agree more.

I agree with Gaby, sure ASDA looks cheaper than small local shops but that's because they are minimum wage employers and outsource production, i.e. clothing, to the Third World, where contractors employ children to produce poor quality items in sweatshop conditions. Secondly, they deliberately seek to drive out competition by pursuing a 'predatory pricing policy', whereby particular items are sold at less than the cost of production (the loss leader) in order to attract shoppers to their stores and knock out any rivals. Local shops don't stand a chance against aggressive predators like ASDA.